tile based civ builder

[IAmTheRealSpartacus]

Here's some screenshots of what I'm working on. Basically a civilization clone but intended to have much, much more tedious micro management. It's in alpha alpha alpha mode!

[Taehl]

More tedious? Is that supposed to be a good thing?

Good luck with your project, though.

[kikito]

Yay! More tedious micromanagement!

I hope it also comes with bugs!

[IAmTheRealSpartacus]

More tedious? Is that supposed to be a good thing?

Good luck with your project, though.

Well maybe I want to offer the option of tedious micromgmt... for masochists who are into that kind of kinky stuff

[coffee]

More tedious? Is that supposed to be a good thing?

that kind of "tedious" micromanagement worked well in dwarf fortress ;D

BTW good luck for the project!

[Taehl]

that kind of "tedious" micromanagement is what ruins dwarf fortress

fix'd

But I promise I'll say no more on the subject, and spare everyone that rant. As long as it's fun, nothing else matters.

[coffee]

But I promise I'll say no more on the subject, and spare everyone that rant. As long as it's fun, nothing else matters.

Please do, could be an interesting rant. You know it's always a kind subjective and a taste. Could be kind of fun for some but of course not for others. But there is a "market" for all. I love and admire the mega-universe and rich detail of DW but I haven't for sure patience for such a game.

[Taehl]

Well, since you asked...

Dwarf Fortress is something I really want to love, and have tried over and over to do so, but its controls and mechanics are so anti-intuitive and anti-productive that I utterly can't stand it. A few points, off the top of my head:
- The controls have no internal logic, and even simple actions require about four unintuitive hotkeys (minimum) to execute
- As an extreme example, look at the task of reassigning jobs (WITHOUT that third-party tool!). It requires over a dozen keystrokes to make simple changes, and since you tend to get waves of 10-100 dwarves regularly and you have to assign jobs one at a time, you can spend at least half an hour of mind-melting tedium to get them all doing what you need done! This is a f---ing horrible design!
- The data that the player must know isn't presented in a useful manner, and often isn't available at all (for example, the events ticker which can't be rewound to review messages)
- Lack of in-game information, objectives, tutorials, and/or hints, never mind something as nice as player training. The game just dumps you into the middle of an incredibly complex simulation with no help whatsoever, and you very well can die immediately if you don't know what you're doing.
- If the only way to learn how to play your game is by forcing players to read /third-party/, 100+ page manuals, IT IS VERY WRONG AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED IMMEDIATELY.
- The graphics are not clear - they don't readily let the player know what's going on. ASCII art is NOT an excuse - a game MUST make sure the player knows what's happening. This ties into the lack of giving the player useful data.

[coffee]

Dwarf Fortress is something I really want to love

I say the same. I really tried to like it but let's say that not someone in "perfect mind" can't truly say "I love it". If they do they are masochist.

ASCII art is NOT an excuse - a game MUST make sure the player knows what's happening. This ties into the lack of giving the player useful data

DW almost suffers of extreme pure roguelikeness in the worst way possible. A lot of awesome, good people have the "outdated" believe that roguelikes should be ascii, have a lot of keys and combinations, the most complex that can be and very geek. I don't really follow that feeling. Can be still a roguelike but be intuitive and practical.

BTW You can use tiles in DW but don't help much. I tested a couple of times. But still small, low-rez and confusion who's who and what's what continues. Even played in that way don't turn the game much lighter.
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF201 ... repository
I tested this set that I believe was the first come out
http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/df.php
Never tested this Isometric version but seems more playable
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.0

[kikito]

- If the only way to learn how to play your game is by forcing players to read /third-party/, 100+ page manuals, IT IS VERY WRONG AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED IMMEDIATELY.

Ah, dwarf fortress. I promise not to write more than one post on it, otherwise this is going to be too OT.

Captn Duck's video tutorials really helped me out on that (after trying to play the damn thing for 5 times and leaving it). I managed to get proficient enough to have a well-sized fortress, spanning several levels, 100+ dwarves, a decent economy, and even some mechanical devices here and there. But the best part were the emergent good stories. My favorite is that of Glassy, the Sheriff.

Glassy was a shy, humble, non-violent (for being a dwarf) glass worker who was one day promoted to Sheriff. Glassy was fine with that change, since he got a better room (with an armchair and everything!) and the rest were happy that they would not be accidentally killed should Glassy have to Enforce the Law on them.

One fateful day some kobolds arrived to the fortress' main gate. The army archers took good care of them ... but not before Glassy, howling in rage, sprinted to attack them ... untrained, with his bare hands, and no weapons ... only to swiftly meet a club with his forehead.

Glassy spent 1 year unconscious in a bed. People brought him water from time to time. Later on he recovered, and had a big and impressive scar to show, and got a lot of respect. When they decorated the new dining room, artists sculpted scenes of his fight. Everyone seemed to conveniently forget that he didn't even touch a single kobold.

I got many stories like that one, and I enjoyed the game a lot. The tragic failed rescue of a snatched baby. The attack of the (very dangerous!) zombie sheeps. That time when the Elves brought a pair of lions, and I had to sell them even the gold in the teeth of my dwarves just to get them...

And then they introduced the new army system. Its interface was so hideous, that I couldn't stand it any more, and just gave up. Which was a pity, because I liked the game quite much.