LÖVE

T-Bone wrote:If speed is the issue, I think there are more promising changes that could be made, like running on ANGLE by default on Windows (possible with Löve 0.10.0 which supports OpenGL ES natively), which would improve performance on computers with poor OpenGL driver support. Something like this would, unlike Vulkan support, really improve performance on devices that actually need it.

Well, using ANGLE in that case would mean LÖVE's OpenGL code would go through a layer that translates it to Direct3D code. Direct3D isn't inherently faster than OpenGL (and D3D drivers generally aren't more efficient than GL drivers), so it likely wouldn't give any performance improvements at all to do that – it might even slow things down a bit because of the translation layer.

The real benefit of doing something like that is stability and feature support for the crappy Intel integrated GMA GPUs that came in a lot of laptops released from 2005-2010. Their OpenGL drivers tend to lack the features that their Direct3D drivers have. On the other hand, using ANGLE for all Windows systems is also no good, since it also limits the OpenGL features usable by LÖVE to what's available in OpenGL ES, even though desktop OpenGL would be available.

slime wrote:

T-Bone wrote:If speed is the issue, I think there are more promising changes that could be made, like running on ANGLE by default on Windows (possible with Löve 0.10.0 which supports OpenGL ES natively), which would improve performance on computers with poor OpenGL driver support. Something like this would, unlike Vulkan support, really improve performance on devices that actually need it.

Well, using ANGLE in that case would mean LÖVE's OpenGL code would go through a layer that translates it to Direct3D code. Direct3D isn't inherently faster than OpenGL (and D3D drivers generally aren't more efficient than GL drivers), so it likely wouldn't give any performance improvements at all to do that – it might even slow things down a bit because of the translation layer.

The real benefit of doing something like that is stability and feature support for the crappy Intel integrated GMA GPUs that came in a lot of laptops released from 2005-2010. Their OpenGL drivers tend to lack the features that their Direct3D drivers have. On the other hand, using ANGLE for all Windows systems is also no good, since it also limits the OpenGL features usable by LÖVE to what's available in OpenGL ES, even though desktop OpenGL would be available.

I was referring to those laptops (I have one myself). But you're right that using ANGLE by default isn't a good idea, but if it could recognize those computers and only use ANGLE when the computer "needs" it would be a useful feature.

Or everyone (including me) could throw their old laptops in the dumpster where they belong (or install Linux on them; to my surprise OpenGL runs just fine in Ubuntu on my crappy laptop that can't handle it at all on Windows (I'm getting off topic)).

Also, I though Löve was going OpenGL ES anyway in 0.10.0?

0.10.0 will use regular desktop OpenGL if the system supports GL2.1, otherwise it tries to use OpenGL ES 2. On mobile platforms it always uses GLES2+.

slime wrote:0.10.0 will use regular desktop OpenGL if the system supports GL2.1, otherwise it tries to use OpenGL ES 2. On mobile platforms it always uses GLES2+.

wait so 0.9.x doesn't use regular desktop OpenGL ?

LÖVE 0.9 and below always uses desktop OpenGL, so it can't run on mobile devices that only support OpenGL ES (unless you use the GLES fork of love 0.9.2, which adds OpenGL ES support.)

slime wrote:LÖVE 0.9 and below always uses desktop OpenGL, so it can't run on mobile devices that only support OpenGL ES (unless you use the GLES fork of love 0.9.2, which adds OpenGL ES support.)

so this is so that the mobile ports can easily be created right ?

It's a big reason for it, yeah.

It would be nice to have Crappy LÖVE which runs with Angle, for Crappyputers, I mean old netbooks/notebooks like mine

Positive07 wrote:It would be nice to have Crappy LÖVE which runs with Angle, for Crappyputers, I mean old netbooks/notebooks like mine

The GLES version should already be possible to run with ANGLE, since ANGLE is a conformant implementation of OpenGLES. Well, I'll see for myself if it works or not very soon (I'm porting Löve to WinRT)