LÖVE

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:50 am**

On the topic of creating phone/tablet games, you can always check out Moai. Lua interface and a whole lot more advanced than Love2D (which isn't always a good thing, I like Love2D better), and works on Android/iOS beside the main OS'.

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:05 am**

Davidobot wrote: Despite all of minecrafts popularity, in reality Minecraft is very badly programmed.

My video card renders MC with maximum settings in Full HD >300 FPS when I don't move the player and only look around.

I know that minecraft code has issues. Doesn't mean you can blame others' software for you owning lame hardware. So maybe it's not exactly the greatest rendering technique applied, but this far it runs perfectly unless your PC is a pile of garbage. It's one of those games average gaming computers are yet to meet requirements of, like Dwarf Fortress, or like Crysis 1 was at a time. Mostly memory, as long as it doesn't goes to swap it's very fast. But if it does and you have HDD swap rather than SSD swap then you're screwed, you gonna have lots of long freezes.

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:32 am**

Considering what minecraft looks and plays like vs what is possible, I wouldn't neccesarily put the blame on the hardware. Performance is keeping that game become even more awesome than it already is. They could really do with an upgrade to their rendering engine. Imagine being able to look without having a cut-off distance for how far you can see. Especially when you go up and look down, where currently the game very quickly is unable to render stuff anymore.

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:45 am**

raidho36 wrote:Java and mobile has nothing to do with each other: apple uses ObjectiveC, and [decent programmers on] android uses C++.

Given that LWJGL is almost directly tied to native OpenGL libraries, any performance issues is entirely application programmers' fault. Although minecraft's rendering is fine, provided this high amount of polygons rendered simultaneously as it's in the order of magnitude (or something) more than in your average 3d game. The real problem here is that lack of your RAM would force it to continiously load/unload chunks, especially when you move arond a lot, and that causes freezes we're all hate about minecraft so much. My video card renders MC with maximum settings in Full HD >300 FPS when I don't move the player and only look around. So it's your inadequate hardware, not poorly written graphics part; same as blaming Crysis for running like crap on your Pentium III powered PC. Get yourself SSD and 64 GB RAM and enjoy smooth minecraft gameplay.

I'm on a MacBook Pro Mid-2012 8GB RAM, and MC runs fine. When I said it's "Slowness", I meant lag spikes when generating new chunks sometimes. Also, be nicer to people. Would it really hurt you? I have Minecraft in Normal render distance, and everything else at the max and it runs fine. 200FPS.

Well, we went from talking about LÖVE being written in C++ to talking about Minecraft. Yeah... how does this happen?

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:52 pm**

Davidobot wrote:
Eamonn wrote:LibGDX uses LWJGL, except highly abstracted afaik. I really want to make mobile games(maybe not for release, but maybe some) and eventually 3D games Game programming is a lot of fun, though some people are trying to make me use GameMaker because I'm 13, which is annoying. But anyway, I don't want to go too off topic. Do the bad rendering techniques contribute to how slow Minecraft is, or is it just natural? I don't really wanna go diving into the Minecraft code because I'll probably just confuse myself.
Despite all of minecrafts popularity, in reality Minecraft is very badly programmed. Instead of rendering just things that you see, it renders everything, which causes emense lag, and Notch himself admitted that this is true. Just look at Blockscape, much more surfaces, yet it runs smoother. It's all in the coding skill.

Well, while it's rendering walls you'ren't seeing, it's rendering only walls, not the inside of blocks. It's far from being unoptimised, even if we can do better(Optifine).
The big reason Minecraft is lagging is it's gameplay. You can't simulate an infinite world without some lag, or some trades-off.

raidho36 wrote:Java and mobile has nothing to do with each other: apple uses ObjectiveC, and [decent programmers on] android uses C++.

The phones before the IPhone were using Java, and Android is still Java centric. (There is always some Java in every Android app, even if it's just a bootstrap to the C/++ part.)

SDL2-2.0.0.tar.gz/README-android.txt wrote:================================================================================
How the port works
================================================================================

- Android applications are Java-based, optionally with parts written in C
- As SDL apps are C-based, we use a small Java shim that uses JNI to talk to
the SDL library
- This means that your application C code must be placed inside an Android
Java project, along with some C support code that communicates with Java
- This eventually produces a standard Android .apk package

Also, why Java devs aren't "decent"? If it's not a big 3d game, it's okay to use Java.

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:43 pm**

So we did estabilished that Minecraft's rendering is fine and the whole problem is chunks. This is mostly limited by your hard drive speed if you don't have loads of RAM, because it would have to read data from swap, which is ridiculously slow with HDDs. Maybe minecraft could've handled memory better so it wouldn't use that much and regular people would have lagging threshold higher, but I think the best possible result is something like 30% improvement over existing thing. Without huge amounts of RAM and/or very fast swap drive, you gonna experience freezes super-optimal techniques or not. This is very vibrant example of the IO bottleneck which you can't overcome programmatically.

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:29 pm**

spectralcanine wrote:On the topic of creating phone/tablet games, you can always check out Moai. Lua interface and a whole lot more advanced than Love2D (which isn't always a good thing, I like Love2D better), and works on Android/iOS beside the main OS'.

I checked out Moai, but it was... well.... for lack of a better word meh. It wasn't hard to use, but I found Java+LibGDX easier for some reason.

LÖVE

LÖVE written in C++?

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