Convince my friend to start using Löve

[nice]

Hello boys and girls!

A good friend of mine wants to learn programming, I have tried to convince him to start using Löve2D but he said that he wants to use something more common for example C++.
The problem that he has (from what I understand) is that he works on it for a while, loose interest for it, finds something else, works on it for a while, looses interest, rinse and repeat.

So could you help me out and try to convince him? Maybe tell your experience?

Thanks!

[undef]

Just let him start learning C++ for a week.
Then, when he's frustrated you show him how easily things he did can be done in Lua.

[Muris]

You can always direct and your friend the wonderful world of pointers in c++. Also you should show how wonderful automatic class destructors are if you do not make a memory allocation by new in a function that returns a new object.

I think if your friend has a habit of losing interest in things fast, c++ is definitely not the best place to start. I would probably even recommend something like LOGO + turtle. Atleast you can get something that actually does something/has any visual input pretty fast. With C++ after one month of learning c++, you probably do not have much more than something of a console program that asks for an input and then makes anagrams out of it.

[nice]

Just let him start learning C++ for a week.
Then, when he's frustrated you show him how easily things he did can be done in Lua.

That's the idea, personally I would like to see that he starts with lua to understand how programming works and after that he can choose what ever language he wants to.

[nfey]

With 0 programming background, not looking to make a profession out of it and without following an actual structured beginner's tutorial, C++ is probably the worst choice for a programming language. I wouldn't go for .NET or Java either, since they come with a lot of baggage and pretty much force you into OOP too.
I'd pick a scripting language that allows both procedural and object-oriented programming. Like Python or Lua. I'd personally choose Python, but Lua works well for a beginner too.
There's other programming paradigms out there, but I can't really suggest anything because I only came into brief contact with some of them in Uni. In the usual business production environment, you'll be hard pressed to find a language that isn't procedural or object-oriented.

* I don't like Lua a lot, but it's a personal preference coming out of only working with C-like languages in the past 8? years; I always forget a "then" or "end" when writing my Love scripts

[Foxcraft]

Hello nice,

Your friend is just learning programming? Send him to Code.org. See if he can survive through an Hour of Code lesson. It's meant for all ages, so you or him should be able to find a lesson that is fitting. There's some other more in-depth lessons on there if he wants to go further.

I've started up a volunteer-run club for teaching kids and teens how to code. I would not start them out with LÖVE unless they really wanted to try it (and even then, try to work in some pure Lua lessons beforehand). Your friend doesn't seem to break that barrier, so I wouldn't recommend that for him. LÖVE is awesome, and I am trying to work it into our club toolbox, but it's not something I'd try to convince somebody to start out in.

Programming is not about the language itself as it is the concepts behind it. Although each one seems to have its own little quirks, essentially, if you learn one, you basically have them all down. It's a way of thinking. Though, as it's been said, C++ is a pretty rough language to start out in, especially alone. But if he's dead set on doing it, let him. If he fails, just be there to help him like friends do.

You can't want more for someone than they want themselves. You just make both of you miserable. Give what info you can, and let him be on his way.

[nice]

Hello nice,

Your friend is just learning programming? Send him to Code.org. See if he can survive through an Hour of Code lesson. It's meant for all ages, so you or him should be able to find a lesson that is fitting. There's some other more in-depth lessons on there if he wants to go further.

I've started up a volunteer-run club for teaching kids and teens how to code. I would not start them out with LÖVE unless they really wanted to try it (and even then, try to work in some pure Lua lessons beforehand). Your friend doesn't seem to break that barrier, so I wouldn't recommend that for him. LÖVE is awesome, and I am trying to work it into our club toolbox, but it's not something I'd try to convince somebody to start out in.

Programming is not about the language itself as it is the concepts behind it. Although each one seems to have its own little quirks, essentially, if you learn one, you basically have them all down. It's a way of thinking. Though, as it's been said, C++ is a pretty rough language to start out in, especially alone. But if he's dead set on doing it, let him. If he fails, just be there to help him like friends do.

You can't want more for someone than they want themselves. You just make both of you miserable. Give what info you can, and let him be on his way.

He's very capable, it's just that I think he gets distracted by a lot of different things that seems interesting but I believe that just when he puts his mind into it I hink he can get very far.
And of course he should do his own thing, it's just that I want him to know that you can do a lot of different things in Löve and when he feels that he knows enough about it he can move on to another language.

[Foxcraft]

nice,

Alrighty.

OK, let me tell you about why I think LÖVE's great. LÖVE is pretty straight to the point. In that, I found myself able to better visualize what I want to do and how to do it, spending less time trying to fight with code and look things up. When I do look things up, the documentation is pretty clear, and in the occasions that failed, this forum is a great resource. It's really pretty quick to get a game up and running, making LÖVE a great tool if even just to get prototypes going.

As I work my way through making materials for the club goers, I find more and more things I like. You learn so much in trying to teach somebody about something, for sure. Other than maybe Pygame (mostly just for being in Python), I don't think there's any other self-coding game framework/engine I'd rather use for someone newer to coding.

Lua is just a really great language. You might have to play with a few other languages to realize it, but it's just awesome. And it is a common choice in scripting languages these days, especially in video game engines, from what I've heard (and what I've seen adds to that).

As we've both said, one can always move on to another language, another framework, if interested in doing so. But I'd highly recommend any person interesting in making games to consider giving LÖVE a try, just not as your very very very first programming thing (use Code.org, Codecademy, Scratch, etc.). And if you've got a friend who already knows it, why not?

[nice]

As we've both said, one can always move on to another language, another framework, if interested in doing so. But I'd highly recommend any person interesting in making games to consider giving LÖVE a try, just not as your very very very first programming thing (use Code.org, Codecademy, Scratch, etc.). And if you've got a friend who already knows it, why not?

He's familiar with Codecademy, I don't know if he's familiar with code.org or Scratch though..

[Foxcraft]

Oh, he's already done some Codecademy? I was under the impression that he's never coded before. My bad.

I don't know if Code.org uses it the entire time, but it and Scratch make use of visual programming. That is, working with what's like puzzle pieces that you snap together to make code. So it's pretty good for people who are on the newer side because it lets you focus on the concepts themselves and worry less about making errors. (Especially good with visualizing how a loop works.)

Someone already further in with self coding things (typing them yourself, I mean) might not enjoy it very much, depending on how far in they are with understanding.

I still think it's interesting to play with though, regardless, as it's similar to the "boxing" technique I use when I have taught my friends how to code.